So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

[thade]

Back when I started playing, I wanted very, very badly to play a GK army. Used a unit of PAGK as allies for a time and they were massively over-costed...and now that whole ally-rule thing is gone anyway. I still have a good number of painted GK (some of my best models, IMHO) and I've love for them to see the field.

I've been away from the table for a couple of months but I'm feeling that itch, and those models look good, and - hey - fancy new plastic kits and a shiny new codex.

SO tell me. Those of you who either have been using the new GK codex or going up against it. Strengths? Weaknesses? Balanced with the 5th Ed SM, SW, BA? How is it measuring up? What are your thoughts? Anecdotes? Blab to me.

[Inquisitor Wall]

My basic thoughts are they are good, but dont play like marines. They have few attacks in combat, and are much better at shooting than normal marines.

Just like every new codex they fall into the "Super Cool" looking new units, that you will find are not as important or are over costed. I have not had a chance to try as many games as I would like with them, but they can certainly be a solid army. I really like small units of paladins with psycannons as they can move and shoot as heavy, and you can distribute wounds.

[thade]

When I was studying up on what armies were out there and how they worked, I remember reading about a player that fielded a GK list (in 4th ed) thus:

LR, 6-8 PAGK
LR, 6-8 PAGK
Brother Captain with TDA, Psycannon.

He'd solo DS the Brother Captain and play a "water game", where he leveraged old-style shrouding, pot-shotting with the BC's psycannon and the lascannons until someone got close enough, when he would "punish them for coming into melee range of GK". He apparently went undefeated for his entire run in 4th ed with this very simple, often dramatically out-manned list.

That is more or less the picture I have of GK. Dramatically outnumbered and ridiculously patient. Likely that list won't hold up anymore (maybe I'm wrong) but I envision similar lists. I admit, I'm a sucker for "out-manned" because fewer models are easier to manage, carry, and paint well (in a timely fashion). If they are durable enough to be outmanned, I think I could get into them.

[Kinne]

PAGK are nowhere near overcosted any more. A simple comparison to tactical marines is sufficient. For four points, you upgrade a bolter to a storm bolter, and a pistol to a force weapon, gain The Aegis, Warpquake and Hammerhand, and Deep Strike. For another 20 points (so 4pts/model or less, depending on squad size) you can make their stormbolters S5 with Psybolt ammunition. For 5 points, your Rhino goes from being a regular transport to one that can ignore Stunned and Shaken results if you pass a successful Ld 10 psychic test, and another 15 points gives you four 24" S5 shots from two storm bolters with psybolt ammo. Add another 20 points for two S7 Psycannons, and at 275pts you have a squad that pours out 16 BS4 S5 shots at 24", and 6 BS4 S7 shots at 18/36", with a vehicle that can ignore Stunned and Shaken and drop its own 4 BS4 S5 shots at 24".

Playing against a Descent of Angels list, or anything that Deep Strikes? Each PAGK squad can create a huge swathe of land that causes an auto Deep Strike Mishap to any unit landing within 12". Fighting against a unit of Ork boyz? Great! Make a successful Ld 9 psychic test to turn your power weapons up to S5.

The codex isn't broken (at least if you take a logical look at the rules and don't RAW the crap out of it), but it's much more balanced than the old book. I think it's very solid now.

[Kinne]

Let me correct my above posts -- the squad fires 4 BS4 S7 shots at 18" Assault, or 8 at 36" Heavy.

[thade]

I remember reading that they did some points-rebalancing just prior to release so as to bloat the number of models one could field (increasing the number of models they might buy). Did this happen? What's the ratio of GK to vanilla brother marines in a typical 2k list?

[Kinne]

That's tough to say. It depends on what you want to field. You can horde PAGKs just as effectively as you can Tac Marines, since the cost difference is really only four points per model. But you also have things like Paladins, which are two-wound Terminators that cost 55pts/model, and you can also field regular Terminators as Troops. Dreadknights are also a big points sink, so if you wanted to do a small, elite army, you really could with Termies for your Troop Choices, Paladins for Elites and DKs for Heavies. Or you could take several squads of PAGKs in Rhinos for 275 apiece, or even save 55pts/squad and field them on foot but Deep Strike them near objectives. They're a pretty versatile force.

[thade]

You make a convincing sell, Kinne. I'll very likely pick up the codex tonight then and chew on it a bit. (Like, literally, with my teeth.)

[Kinne]

Gross.

And yeah, right as I was declaring that I was finished with Space Marines, this book comes out and gives me ideas. . .horrible, horrible ideas that are way above my current modeling skill. . .

[HellzGuardian]

I've gone up against grey knights 3 times with my vanilla marines. The knights were always outmanned but god damn those cannons wasted my marines! They would then do numbers to them in close combat. The grey knights in my personal opinion are one hell of a tough opponent to go up against.