So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

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Dez
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby Dez » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:44 am

I'm trying not to read this, because I don't want to start my Thousand Sons over because this is the perfect codex to represent them....could redo the old ones as Blood Ravens...
What aims do the Orks have? What is the point of a tornado?

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thade
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby thade » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:20 am

Dez wrote:I'm trying not to read this, because I don't want to start my Thousand Sons over because this is the perfect codex to represent them....could redo the old ones as Blood Ravens...


DEZ! BAD DEZ! NO! NO, DEZ! BAD!

Srsly, this is even out of character for you. You should just paint an entire NEW army as 1k sons and have the Red ones use SW and the new ones use GK. ;)
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Dez
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby Dez » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:30 am

I may do a super elite ultra converted 1k Sons in the future, but I'm trying to weed out some of the projects I have in mind and also sell some of my stuff so I can pay for Games Day.
What aims do the Orks have? What is the point of a tornado?

Fighting E.G.A.D.D Excitable Gamer Attention Deficit Disorder

I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
ADB

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Krymson86
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby Krymson86 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:58 pm

The one time I played against the new GK codex was in a 2v2 Chaos and GK (makes total sense) vs Templar and SM. Since it was 2v2, I can't say 100% what the GK's were like on their own, but from my experience it was almost like dealing with a T4, 3+ armor save Eldar army. What I mean is, the Psycannon's were absolutely brutal at range, everyone else popping off stormbolters with nifty ammo etc. But in close combat they weren't amazing, they were certainly good, but not over the top. What really hurt though was that I got shredded at range, so whatever of my forces did make it into close combat was outnumbered and put through the wringer.

I would agree that if you play the as vanilla marines you'll have some success, but they're going to require some tactics and strategies that are unique to them. I wouldn't call them an assault army either, I'd consider them an army that WANTS to do the majority of its damage in the shooting phase, and then just mop up whoever manages to make it as far as their gunlines.
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby Xelloss » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:26 pm

They have the potential to be at LEAST as nasty as a tournament space wolf list. Between the psycannons and psybolt ammo, they will destroy foot lists while still having enough rending to deal with armor.

Krymson has it right, tho. They need to soften the opponent up first with a ton of shooting before mopping up in close combat. They don't have the numbers to do just one or the other. With the exception of dreadnoughts, they have very little long range (LOTS of medium range though), so its easy to take advantage of.
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby Krymson86 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:35 pm

Xellos, GK's definitely have the potential to shred opponents right up there with SW lists. To be fair, the list I went against was a 'fun game' list of like 40 Purifiers and 3 or 4 Dread Knights. I mean, on turn 1, the GK's had nothing in range of any of our units, however, neither did I except for my Pred tank with las cannons so I couldn't do much damage numerically. I immediately regretted not taking 2x PoTMS vindicators, but oh well.

Mid range (24-36 inch range) GKs are just nasty. They excel at close combat because of how well their mid range shooting thins the herd. I could see a GK list having trouble with a Raider Rush (depending on who or what's inside), heavily mechanized SWs w/ Long Fangs or Blood Angels lists with Storm Ravens as they don't have, as Xellos said, a whole lot of heavy weaponry and rely a lot on rending rolls (but with as many shots as they'll be taking, they'll probably be okay against regular tanks, but armor 13 and 14 could be tougher than normal for them). I could totally see a GK player having a tough time if a player took a bunch of Land Raiders and just crashed their front lines, or a force that relies heavily on units that have the infiltrate special rule.
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thade
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby thade » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:08 pm

40 purifiers and 3 dread knights? That's not a "friendly list". haha That's a SRS BUSINESS list.

Codex is now owned, it was a fun read through. Looks like the GK can deactivate the Golden Throne (just a theory, but what else would that thing do?)...and thus effectively end 40k.

Anyway, I'm excited about Warp Quake and Nemesis Falchions and the term Brother-Captain. Odds are high any GK list I run will be too fluffy to be terrifying, but we'll see. More studying to do before I buy any plastic.
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby Kinne » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:50 pm

I feel like the termie-only characters are kind of a drawback. If you want them in an armored box, you need to drop 200+ points on a Stormraven or a Land Raider. Admittedly they can all Deep Strike, so that helps.

And IMO, the best NFW for its cost is the Halberd. Cheaper than the falchions, it allows you to strike before any other MEQ, including Blood Angels with Furious Charge and Emperor's Children. Combined with the fact that they're Force Weapons, and that means some dead MEQs before they get a chance to swing, which means fewer wounds on your end. I will say that Falchions in a unit with a Librarian that has Quicksilver will ruin your opponent's day. Then again, a unit of Purifiers with Falchions would be 290 points before any other upgrades, plus a minimum of 150 points for the Libby, plus 200+ points for a Land Raider or Stormraven to make sure they get into combat, so they had darn well better bring the hurt!

The most ridiculous part of the entire codex, IMO, are Purifiers. Let's look at a fully kitted-out Strike Squad:

Justicar wMaster-crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer
2 x Knights w/Psycannons
7 x Knights w/Halberds
Rhino

Total -- 310 points

What You Get:
16 x BS4 S4 shots at 24" Assault
4/8 x BS4 S7 Rending shots at 24" Assault/Heavy
2 x WS4 S8 I1 NFW attacks
7 x WS4 S4 I6 NFW attacks
2 x WS4 S4 I4 attacks

Or you can take this. . .

Knight of the Flame w/MC NDH
4 x Knights w/Psycannons
5 x Knights w/Halberds
Rhino

Total -- 340 points

What you get:
12 x BS4 S4 shots at 24" assault
8/16(!) BS4 S7 Rending shots 24" Assault/Heavy
2 x WS4 S8 I1 NFW attacks
10 x WS4 S4 I6 NFW attacks
8 x WS4 S4 I4 attacks

So for thirty points you get double the Psycannon shots, three more I6 halberd attacks, and six more normal attacks. Not to mention the Cleansing Flame psychic power to eat up hordes. All you lose are four stormbolter shots and Warpquake. Admittedly Warpquake can be a godsend against Blood Angels, Daemons, other Grey Knights and any Drop Pod armies, but pound-for-pound, Purifiers are so much better for little extra cost. Compare the cost of that to a Purgation squad. The same setup (NDH, halberds and four psycannons) will cost you an extra five points. You gain Astral Aim (which is pretty boss), but lose 5 halberd attacks and 4 regular attacks. Admittedly the purpose of Purgation squads is to avoid combat, but when your best weapon is only 24" range, the likelihood of you avoiding combat is significantly lower than a Devastator Squad with 48" range lascannons and missile launchers. Note, however, that Incinerators are free for Purgation squads. So you could roll up in a rhino, hop out, and hose a unit with four S6 AP4 templates and laugh and laugh. Even if you only score five hits with each template against a horde, you're still looking at 17 dead whatevers.

On a side note, Purgation Squads are the greatest against things with Stealth, inside of Reinforced Buildings or Eldar Rangers. You get an unmodified 4+ Cover Save, which means your 3+ (or better) save automatically goes to a 4+.
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thade
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby thade » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:09 am

Purifiers are vicious, but the IC you need to take to make them troops has quite a peculiar balance (the whole "you charge me and you are awesome-r"-thing).

I'll probably have at least one unit of Purifiers in my first list, but I definitely see a full combat-squaded Purgation squad, two units of PAGK with halberds, and some Paladins because - seriously - I canNOT resist wound-allocated marines. Silly orks had it coming. @_@
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Dez
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Re: So tell me the truth: how is the new GK Codex?

Postby Dez » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:24 am

I'll put my Orks up against' some Blingy Boyz any day!
What aims do the Orks have? What is the point of a tornado?

Fighting E.G.A.D.D Excitable Gamer Attention Deficit Disorder

I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
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