Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

J Rzasa
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby J Rzasa » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:21 pm

Hey Jonah, I don't want to hijack the thread, but where is the rule that champs don't get sent back?

I'm totally going to start taking them if that is the case, but I'm not sure where that rule is.

Uh... Lookin good Steve...

~J

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thade
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby thade » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:06 pm

Heh, thanks J. These guys have sat in the closet long enough. I converted 18 great axes last night into 2H'd hammers. Tonight I do the next set of 18...and then two musicians (drummers, of course) and two standard bearers. That's two units of hammerers!

Longbeards are all assembled and need only minor detail work to be done, so I bet I can do that over the weekend. Finally I need to assemble and clean up a few war machine crew models and the war machines themselves (haven't even cracked the laminate on the grudge throwers yet).

It's looking like I'll be crashing at Jer's for that weekend of the tournament; if anybody'd like to kick the crap out of me either in 40k or Fantasy that Friday or Saturday evening, I think it's a fair bet I'll be at OTW one or both days. ;)
Thade = Steve

While the enemies of the Emperor still draw breath, I have some faces that I need to crack open. @_@

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thade
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby thade » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:46 pm

J! Sorry I missed this before.

Champs can accept challenges but do not have to; they can easily "blend in" or so their entry explains. They're not forced to the back if they decline.
Thade = Steve

While the enemies of the Emperor still draw breath, I have some faces that I need to crack open. @_@

J Rzasa
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby J Rzasa » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:50 pm

It's ok, I'm actually looking for the page on that rule. Just incase I break it out in a tournament.

~J

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thade
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby thade » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:51 pm

I don't have the book in hand but I did read the rule last night. Pretty sure it's in the section that explains what the Command Group is, under the Champion entry. I'll find it for sure when I get home (if you don't first).
Thade = Steve

While the enemies of the Emperor still draw breath, I have some faces that I need to crack open. @_@

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Commander_Jay
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby Commander_Jay » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:41 pm

J Rzasa wrote:It's ok, I'm actually looking for the page on that rule. Just incase I break it out in a tournament.

~J


Here it is, Hijacker: pg 102 "refusing a challenger" 2nd sentence, "he may not nominate a ... unit champion".
-Commander Jay

"If you know the enemy and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

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thade
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby thade » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:13 pm

I'm a bit torn on whether to include FCs with each and every unit. For a small team like Thunderers, it makes sense to only have a musician (so they can potentially swift reform...actually, Thunderers are Move-Or-Shoot...so maybe it's not as valuable as I think it is?!)...but for like a team of Hammerers, they may not need a Champion if they either have no Characters or a tank character (i.e. one who would gleefully accept a challenge). However, I see having the FC in each combat unit giving me flexibility; both in Deployment (I can nominate either hammer team as the one that gets whichever character(s) I want) and later on I can change my mind, moving a Character from one unit to another, confident I still have a Champion to soak or issue a challenge at need.

...Is there ever a case where you'd want a Unit Champion to issue a challenge? I feel like it's rare that a character in the other unit would go down easily to a unit champion. I guess if it's like a Big'n'Scary Chaos Warrior Champion and the Character in Question is like an Empire Wizard (with no melee-centric magic) or something else frail. What about in my case?
Thade = Steve

While the enemies of the Emperor still draw breath, I have some faces that I need to crack open. @_@

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Commander_Jay
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby Commander_Jay » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:48 pm

First infantry units need full commands. The Musician's Swift Reform is amazing. And his tie breaking and +1 Ld when regrouping helps. The Standard's +1 to Combat Res is worth its weight in gold, tons of combats are decided by one point. And the Champion is fantastic too. First, an additional attack is great (I could have 11, when you only have 10 if you dont take him). But the tricky tactics with challenges make the Champion fantastic. So take all three.

Thunderers and Quarrellers dont need full command. Cause they are there to shoot, and shouldnt use points on other things if possible. Sometimes I gave them Musicians, rarely Standards.

thade wrote:...Is there ever a case where you'd want a Unit Champion to issue a challenge? I feel like it's rare that a character in the other unit would go down easily to a unit champion. I guess if it's like a Big'n'Scary Chaos Warrior Champion and the Character in Question is like an Empire Wizard (with no melee-centric magic) or something else frail. What about in my case?


Yes! They either absorb a lot of damage, or scare an enemy away. If an enemy is scared of you, like he only has one wound left, he may not want to fight your champion who has two attacks with a great weapon. So then the enemy has to retreat. Although, you may want to simply kill him instead.

But the best times are against characters that will ruin you. The kind that can do 4, 6, 8 or even more wounds. You dont wanna lose 8 models, so just have the Champion die and get overkilled. You save 7 models, and maybe some combat res (overkill being capped at 5). But when you're Stubborn it does matter how much you lose by, only that your models survive.

Lets say your unit fights a Chaos Lord. He'll kill 4 of you, or so. So you challenge, then the champ dies. You still lose combat, but your stubborn, so losing the one model versus 4 is great. Hammerers can do this all the time.

Use the Champ to absorb the biggest amount of wounds your opponent can deal.
-Commander Jay

"If you know the enemy and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

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thade
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby thade » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:56 am

I just realized that I'm a noob and forgot that you can't have more Longbeard units (I have one) than Warrior units (I have zero) unless you have a Lord (which I do not). I will be swapping the points from the Runelord to the Thane to address this. Will make more fluff-wise sense too, given that I'll have two units of Hammerers (which are essentially royal guards).

My question is...this will restrict how much I can stick on my Runesmith. How much do I suffer for not taking a dispel rune? I think not that much, given that Dwarves are pretty boss at dispelling...but again, I'm new.
Thade = Steve

While the enemies of the Emperor still draw breath, I have some faces that I need to crack open. @_@

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Commander_Jay
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Re: Critique my first Dwarf Army list. @_@

Postby Commander_Jay » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:57 am

I always take at least a Runesmith with a Master Rune of Balance. Cause effectively that gives me a 3 dice swing in my favor. A dispel rune helps a lot though. Cause soooo many people take a spell that can nuke a unit in one shot (think Dweller's Below, etc), and they will cast it on all their dice. You can dispel with a lot of dice, but often with only a 60% chance of success (cause they will set the bar high). Instead, simply dispel it. It wont happen often, but one dispel rune often pays off big. Plus it prevents nasty surprises, like when you forget they have one spell left, and you're out of dice.
-Commander Jay

"If you know the enemy and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." -Sun Tzu, The Art of War


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